AdvancedAxisandAllies.com

[GROGnads]

''H.Q.''~Headquarters = Plan Operations = conduct 'Ops' = react & counter
In general, the 'H.Q.' is going to be responsible for placing UNITS under 'Command' to perform their 'Ops' during the TURN.
Depending upon the 'level' of the GAME being portrayed, then there will be 'sub-units' UNDER the 'Higher Commands', for as low or high a 'level', that is desired.

The 'prime example' is what I'd consider as '2nd A&A' by ''M.B.'' since that is most prevalent. That is of a 'Grand Strategic' Global conflict 'level' and you're 'dealing' with Army & Army Groups for 'H.Q.'s-although 'none' are present. For a 'Battle of the Bulge' type of GAME, then you're 'dealing' with Division and below, in which there are HIGHER echelon 'assets' from 'Corps' or 'Army'~EXTRA 'Troops' and in such as a '4' player 'B.o.t.B.' GAME, then it could make a difference. TEAM play being emphasized for many, and yet suitable for '2'.

When you start 'dealing' with the aspects of ALL that is concerned with being on a ''WAR footing'', then abstractions become 'factored' into certain instances. SUPPLY is crucial~without it, forget it! At the 'Global Conflict' level, it is usually disregarded or a 'in being' FEE is paid to maintain the current 'pieces'. Mainly due to TIME & Design constraints, then even many other 'affects' are considered as 'not relevant' for certain situations. For, let's say, 'North Africa', then it is very MUCH 'important' since the UNITS are even of a smaller 'level', such as 'Battalions' & 'Regiments' or 'Brigades AND they're 'dealing' with an EXTREME climate as well. Weather, terrain, distances, etc. tend to HAVE to be 'dealt' with since it could greatly affect any 'Ops'. Getting a ''Supply Convoy Sunk/Trucks Raided in Transit'' result is quite the 'bummer daze'. At the 'relevant' levels, then there are 'Replacements' of current equipment, while at the appropriate times in 'History', then IMPROVED 'stuff' starts to be introduced! Everyone usually likes that! *NEW* tends to be 'better' and wouldn't it be a ''shame'' IF they ''got SUNK'' on their way to you? ''I HATE when THAT 'happens'!''

[Imperious Leader]

Yes in any operational or small tacitical level wargame, HQ units are the best way to address such factors as supply, propensity to engage in combat situations,ability to influence individual units on how they perform their turn functions. Even on a strategic level game it adds good flavor to account for some influence of "leadership". I am planning on making a "bulge" style game, but i think i will make it in a "blocks of war" type of game ala Columbia game co. I want to make it a true fog of war slugfest. I allready have the pieces/decals ready to go. I just have to make a map that will show a larger section of france as too include Antwerp and belgium so as to possibly illustrate the British and American armies that are to be possibly "trapped" in the north and expose the reality of how exactly the germans hoped to bag these divisions and extend the war another 18 months. In a real sense the odjective of the game will show that even if the Germans had succeeded, their were further complications that they would have to achieve to win the war in the west outright.

[GROGnads]

I was mostly hoping to make some examples of which they then could be applied to certain situations. Since you brought it up, then I'll suggest that a ''Bulge'' thread be created and we can drop off comments and ideas in that. The same could be done for EVERY subject that is of interest, since I also happen to 'favor' the ''Market-Garden'' operations myself. I'd also suggest that lots of people obtain copies of certain Games to increase their scope of IDEAS that can be culled from those. Do you KNOW what is 'funner' than ''breaking out over the Namur and getting to Antwerp?''
How's about WHEN you manage to ''cut off the entire Allied Northern Army Group, and watch them attempt to extricate themselves?''-definitely MOSTEST 'funner'! That can be 'done' in a GAME such as ''Fortress Europa'' by 'John Edwards/Avalon Hill'- in which the CAMPAIGN from 'D-Day' to 'V-E Day'!~or NOT if the Germans hold out heh heh heh. I would even say that the ''Battle for Germany'' GAME by S.P.I./D.G., is a good topic that could be covered or even improved upon.

[Imperious Leader]

Yes you bring up some good points. I own both Fortress Europa and Battle for Germany and i really like the latter. Its a very simple game really and was originally a "folio game" and then incorporated into a box format, which i also own. When this delux war in the pacific game is done . I will work on the european version which will definatly include a glorious wagnerian scenario a "gutterdamerung" with all the bells and whistles including the proposed national redoubt in the bavarian alps where Der Fuhrer himself directs the SS units with underground factories. And optional rules covering a german A- bomb. but that is in the farther future.

[GROGnads]

Okay, so as a good lesson in 'co-op' on anything, let US settle down to design our own 'version' for ''Battle of Germany '45''! Agreed? We could set down our very OWN 'manner' on this or work on just ONE together. In general, there would be little use or need for NAVAL units, although others will have better influences. The 'O'riginal GAME had bi-weekly or half-month Turns, and Units were of Corps, Army, Army Group level~so, 'H.Q.'s can become integral with the game. Let's say that you take and DOUBLE the 'size' of the current 'Gamemap' of this, and they'll become '1'-inch HEXES then. After this, its BIG enough to hold a couple of 'pieces' to permit 'stacking', while also having 'Terrain' or the 'Season' could affect Movement, Defense, etc. Remember, this'll begin WITH a 'German Ardennes Offensive' taking place~with the 'means' to make it to 'Antwerp'...or beyond! Sounding better now?

[GROGnads]

Okay, so as a good lesson in 'co-op' on anything, let US settle down to design our own 'version' for ''Battle of Germany '45''! Agreed? We could set down our very OWN 'manner' on this or work on just ONE together. In general, there would be little use or need for NAVAL units, although others will have better influences. The 'O'riginal GAME had bi-weekly or half-month Turns, and Units were of Corps, Army, Army Group level~so, 'H.Q.'s can become integral with the game. Let's say that you take and DOUBLE the 'size' of the current 'Gamemap' of this, and they'll become '1'-inch HEXES then. After this, its BIG enough to hold a couple of 'pieces' to permit 'stacking', while also having 'Terrain' or the 'Season' could affect Movement, Defense, etc. Remember, this'll begin WITH a 'German Ardennes Offensive' taking place~with the 'means' to make it to 'Antwerp'...or beyond! Sounding better now?

[Imperious Leader]

If we go with 1 inch hexes how do we fit other pieces on the hex? besides my point was that this germany 45' thing would conprise of a single scenario in the upcoming War in Europe game. I dont see the point is JUST making something for 44-45 when i can make a game with the same ideas from 39-45.

[GROGnads]

When you begin to set a SCALE for Units and the like, then certain ones will of necessity become 'abstracted' and factored INTO the 'mix'. At the Army and above level, then you won't NEED seperate 'pieces' to denote other minor kinds of Troops that are an integral part of an 'Army's' ''Tables of Organization & Equipment'' or what is commonly referred to as their ''T. O. & E.''! The 'distinctions' become blurred as the many types that you ARE envisioning as a part of these, are NOT as influential for this 'scale'. When you have 'Units' comprised of CORPS sized and below, then you can distinguish much better amongst them, although there still won't be as many of the *Specialized* kinds as you'd think. IF a certain 'piece' were to represent a DIVISION and several of them made up a CORPS or Army, then this could be a form of 'stacking' as a 'Higher Echelon' organization with certain 'benefits' or EXTRA 'Actions' that they could perform. It is precisely THAT of which I desire to expand upon, to bring a sense of 'Strategy' more profound than what IS presently being depicted~which is NONE!, to be practical about the matter.

[Imperious Leader]

Translate this exactly in game terms under the scope of this game were discussing. Example: germany has one panzer brigade, and 3 jager infantry along with a panzer grenadier division at metz. Now with the 3-4 inch hex idea i just park a halftrack (panzer grenadier) 3 infantry pieces and one small tank or such. under your idea what does it look like? (remember we are using pieces)

[GROGnads]

With the 'pieces' that you've given for use in this EXAMPLE, then you're 'dealing' with below DIVISION level types of 'Units' for the most part, I'd presume! You would 'group' them together to 'create' a larger echelon UNIT such as a 'Division', while a couple of those would make up a 'Corps', and so on. These are influenced by the SCALE being portrayed here, and at this smaller 'scale', then you can HAVE many different kinds of 'Units' represented AND have it be 'seen' as appropriate. There are various means for depicting the 'scope' that you wish to cover, while a GENERIC method should be created to allow others to follow those in keeping with a general SET of 'Rules' to use at certain Organizational 'levels'. The ''Bulge'' game of which you've mentioned previously, would mostly have 'Regiments, Brigades' etc. with possibly some 'Battalion'-sized 'Units' as *Special* types or for certain 'instances'. The 'beauty' of the 'cardboard counters' is that they can be 'flipped over' to their other 'side' and display ANOTHER 'set' of reduced 'factors' for multiple uses.

Let's take this to the NEXT 'level' then, of which I am going to elaborate about. So, for ''fog of WAR'', we use the 'figure' pieces or whatever, and beside or behind this, you have a 'counter' of cardstock or something and ON that, you have an 'I.D.' to distinguish this from the others, as well as any other 'info' you might want to include. Let's SAY that we want to denote a 'Units' STRENGTH as well, so we have numbers on the '4-sides' of the counters to indicate this-just like they DO with them 'wood blocks' except WE can 'turn over' our little counter and have TWICE as many 'numbers' now, huh? WOW! I'm 'glad' I thought of this eh? So, now we've 'improved' upon that system as well. You could even have these 'counters' be of a GENERIC fashion but it takes away from the 'distinct' types and I'll provide some more incentives for having 'Historical' designations. This will even work with many GAMES out now, such as using RISK pieces(of the Napoleonic version) for the 'S.P.I.' Games based upon 'Napoleonic WARS Battles' or Campaigns and such. All you have to 'do' is place one of these OVER its 'symbol' on the game's 'counters' and VOILA! you have a simple ''fog of WAR'' effect created! It can also be applied to even 'Modern' or 'W.W.2' games along the same lines as these, where a single UNIT can only occupy a single 'space', but you'll NEED to 'use' enough of the appropriate, actual, 'Historical' kinds of MINIS for this to 'look' right.

With these, you can even be rid of the 'chips', since they'll contain the AMOUNT upon those along with any other 'info' that you wish to allow for. Some people like to 'deal' with MORALE, and TRAINING can be 'displayed' by indicating a 'Unit' as various levels for this, such as 'Militia', 'Regulars', 'Veterans', 'Elite', etc. and then you can proceed to have the differences be represented in some such RESULTS or ACTIONS that each can perform. I am all for an entirely *NEW* and 'Improved' COMBAT sequence to be introduced for resolving 'Battles' and such, so that it will be much more accurate than what we have to draw upon NOW! The VAST differences in the relative 'scales' that are proposed, are the only limiting 'factors' for this, since you don't want to have 'individuals' fighting it OUT, upon a ''Grand Strategic'' level game, do you? It makes NO practical 'sense' to do that, so why not just come up with our OWN 'sytems' for the various LEVELS that could be covered for whatever 'Campaign' that is being represented? These will have to be 'custom built' for the situations at hand, of which I am advocating them to be presented for USE in anything such as what anyone has in mind. They can even go about this however they want, although it may be quite difficult to convince someone that ''trained Dolphins!'' SHOULD be a 'pertinent factor' for any viable reasons...

[Imperious Leader]

Im beginning to see what you mean. So in essence you propose to use the "pieces" as actual fiqureheads which in themselves only "show" that some quantity of say "infantry" or "Armored" units are portrayed and further that the actual strength of the forces in the hex are revealed during combat and we use basically step loss reduction methods like they use in columbia blocks or war games? Failing that some style of token is used that can be "turned" which when hit in combat is reduced, while you can conversly build or add additional forces to a hex by again "turning" it to show a higher strength. Basically becoming a what they call a "front" counter. There was good use of this in a game called Hitlers war which used HQ units which had a certain infantry/armor/air values that could be moved around instead of a bunch of smaller units. I really like the idea to take away the chips and i really like the idea of having a true fog of war. Bravo Grog!! that must be considered. The only drawback is in naval combat . I just like to see a bunch of ships floating around for aesthetics. I will think about this idea for a few hours and get back to you. thanks alot.

[GROGnads]

Taking this 'notion' into mind, then you could even designate certain UNITS as having particular 'types' of say, TANKS as indicated WITH the 'marker' counter!~along with 'Strength' indicators per each SIDE of this 'counter'. Then, a handy CHART depicting the various kinds could be consulted to give general information about these 'types' that are being encountered, and provide a RANGE of 'factors'(DIE rolls) that will be USED in this instance. Since WHEN a 'type' is first introduced or created, not ALL 'pieces' or UNITS at the 'Front' are able to obtain these until they are ISSUED them, whenever that is made possible. This would mean that the *NEW* 'types' would have to be SENT to the 'Frontline' via SUPPLY lines in order to equip anyone instead of 'instantly' becoming the *NEW* kinds. I'd advocate having 'Supply Lines' or 'Rails' especially, to allow for this aspect to be covered since it is easily and usually abstracted to the utmost.

[Imperious Leader]

On the aspect of supply/ rail. Im thinking of making some basic ideas, (e.g. zone of control- If your surrounded on six sides your units attack /defend at reduced rates and they have only one turn to "break out" or they are destroyed. Only home victory cities are considered self sufficient for combat so these units do not suffer supply/combat effects. All combat is traced to home territories, while across seas (medditerean) supply is traced to a port and every transport in the same sea area can supply 2 units. Something along these lines.